Holocaust Lessons - Interview

Dear Readers;

We wish to share you this moving interview with
Hedy Epstein; Epstein, is a German Jewish Holocaust
survivor, born in 1924, whose parents were sent to Auschwitz
in 1942, where they perished. In 1948, Hedy Epstein went to
live in United States. In 2003, she decided to make a trip to
Palestine. Shocked by the oppression that the Israeli
government is imposing on the Palestinians, she is,
since then, devoting herself to make it known to the world.

Holocaust Lessons: Interviewing Hedy Epstein

By Silvia Cattori

Hedy Epstein, is a German Jewish Holocaust survivor,
born in 1924, whose parents were sent to Auschwitz in
1942, where they perished. In 1948, Hedy Epstein went
to live in United States. In 2003, she decided to make a
trip to Palestine. Shocked by the oppression that the
Israeli government is imposing on the Palestinians,
she is, since then, devoting herself to make it known
to the world.

In the interview she gave to the Swiss journalist
Silvia Cattori, Hedy Epstein speaks, with her gentle
and mild voice, about her last travel to Palestine after
a moving visit to one of several concentration camps
to which her parents were deported. And she said:
"I would like to dedicate this interview to the children
of Gaza, whose parents cannot protect them or send
them away to safety as my parents did when they
sent me to England in May 1939 on a Kindertransport" (*)

Silvia Cattori: In 2004, after the humiliating and
dehumanizing abuse you had to undergo at Tel
Aviv airport, where you had to get undressed and
were internally searched as you explained it to me in
our first conversation [1], you were very upset and you
declared: "I will never return to Israel". But since then
you have been back four more times. Last summer you
were there again. How was it possible?

Hedy Epstein: I have never felt such anger after what
happened to me and the friend travelling with me at the
Ben Gurion airport in January 2004.

While on the plane, still full of rage, I wrote on every page
in the magazines provided by the airline "I am a Holocaust
survivor and I will 'never again' return to Israel". I sometimes
pressed so hard on the paper with my pen, that I tore the
page. It was one small way to vent some of my anger.

After I returned home, still very angry, traumatized,
I decided to get some counselling, which helped me to
work through my anger and allowed me to plan my next
trip back to the West Bank just a few months later, in the
summer of 2004. I have been back every year since
then, a total of five times since 2003. I have gone
back because it is the right thing for me to do; to
witness and to let the Palestinians know there are
some people who care enough to come back and
stand with them in their struggle against Israel's
occupation. Palestinians have asked me upon
my return home, to tell the American people
what I have seen and experienced, because the
American people don't know what is happening, because
the media does not inform them. I made a commitment
to do so and have taken every opportunity to
honour this commitment.

Silvia Cattori : What was your interpretation of the fact
that the Israeli officers treated you in such a brutal way?

Hedy Epstein: They tried to intimidate me, to silence me,
hoping I would never come back. Though momentarily they
may have succeeded, ultimately they did not. To quote
General McArthur, an American army general, who
said "I shall return", I have returned four times since
the January 2004, event at the Tel Aviv airport, on my
way back from Israeli occupied territory, and will
continue to return. They will not be able to stop me.
And, so, I plan to aboard ship to Gaza in a few months.

Silvia Cattori : Was it not too traumatic for a sensitive
person like you to go back to the West Bank and see
the Israeli soldiers humiliating, threatening, killing, and
destroying Palestinians lives and properties?

Hedy Epstein: As an American I am a privileged person.
I am very much aware of this and feel uncomfortable wearing
this cloak, especially when I am in Palestine, conscious of
the fact that I can come and go any time I want to, a
privilege denied the Palestinians, who have great
difficulty in moving from one place to another, restricted by
road blocks, check points, the imprisoning 25 foot high wall,
by young Israeli soldiers who can decide who can pass and
who cannot, who can go to school, to the hospital, to work,
to visit family and friends.

I have seen the long lines of Palestinians at the
Bethlehem checkpoint. I spoke to a 41 year old man,
who told me he works three days a week; in order to
get to work on time, he gets up at 2:30 A.M. and arrives
at the checkpoint at 3:15 A.M. to wait in line, a long line,
with others, for the checkpoint to open around 5:30 A.M.
He has to come this early because many people line up.
Sometimes the Israeli soldiers allow no one to go through.
He would like to work full time, but there are no jobs in Bethlehem.

During each of my five visits I have spent some time
in Jerusalem. I have been painfully aware how increasingly
its current size and boundaries share very little with the
city's historic parameters, Israeli only settlements, such
as Har Homa and Gilo are referred to as Jerusalem
neighbourhoods. East Jerusalem is dotted with Israeli
flags flying from homes from which Palestinians were
"removed," thus judaizing the area more and more.

During my last visit, in August 2007, I only had time for
a brief visit with my dear Palestinian friend, and her
husband in Ramallah. During prior visits, I and some
of my American travel companions were their houseguests
for several days, basking in their hospitality, typical
Palestinian hospitality, which is unlike any other I
have ever experienced anywhere. The wife, ever
cheerful in the past, seemed downcast, though
she did not complain, simply stating "Life is more
difficult since my husband is no longer working".
In a conversation later, alone with her husband, he stated
that he left his job in order to go to school and study.
There is truth in both statements, but the husband's
comments reflect an effort to salvage and
maintain some of his dignity.

I also visited and stayed overnight with my
Palestinians friends and their children in Bethlehem.
The TV, which is always on, at one point caught our
attention. There was a story about Jews from all over
the world, immigrating to Israel. There were many
small Israeli flags waving and welcoming the new
citizens of Israel arriving at the Ben Gurion airport in
Tel Aviv. A big banner in the background spelled out in
English and Hebrew "Welcome Home".

As the story continued, we all stared at the TV,
silently. Then one of us, I don't remember who,
broke the heavy silence, asking no one in particular
"What about the return of the Palestinians?"

At the regular weekly non-violent demonstration in Bi'lin,
as the teargas tossed at us by young Israeli soldiers,
choking us, as we all ran to get away from it, I
overheard a conversation between two Palestinian
boys, one saying to the other "I don't want to die"
"Nor do I" said the other. Their fear has stayed with
me. What will happen to them? What is their future?

And yet, despite the almost hopelessness of the
situation that might never change, Palestinian people
are amazingly strong. Even though the Israeli
oppression goes on, and gets worse, with new
types of military oppression, the Palestinians
have not given up; they are going on living there.

They are an amazing, resilient people. They will never
give up. The Israeli may kill many of them, destroy
their homes, destroy their lives, but they will never
be able to destroy their hope for a different way of
existence, for a better way of living together.

No matter what the Israelis do, they cannot
take away the hope and the dignity of the Palestinian
people. The Israelis have the power, the Palestinian
people have dignity and despite all odds, still have
hope. The Israelis have the airplanes from which they
drop bombs in Gaza, they have bulldozers made here
in the United States, not far from my home, they can
do all those things, but despite this imbalance of
power, the Israelis will never be able to destroy
Palestinians' hope and dignity.

Silvia Cattori: For the Palestinians in Hebron or Nablus,
to see a Holocaust survivor travelling in such
precarious conditions to express to them her
love and solidarity, is it not something very
unusual and touching?

Hedy Epstein: I feel it is important for the Palestinians
who are not allowed to leave Palestine, who are living
under the Israelis military occupation, in such
horrendous conditions, to know that there are
people in other parts of the world who condemn
the Israeli oppression, who care enough to come
there, and to share their difficulties and sufferings,
even if it is for a very short time.

I am impressed again and again to discover that
Palestinians know so much more about what is
going on in the world. They are better informed
than the American people.

Most Palestinians I have met have asked me to
tell the American people what I have seen and
experienced, because the American people do
not know, because the media does not inform
them. I have made a commitment to do that. I
have given talks at high schools, universities,
churches, community groups, in the United
States, as well as in Germany (in German).
I urge people to go to Palestine to see and
experience life there. It is a life changing
experience. They will come back a different
person, more aware, more sensitive and hopefully
challenged to make a difference.

Though I am not a religious Jew (I consider myself
a secular humanist), I know a little bit about Jewish
tradition, which teaches that: "We're permitted
neither to give up hope, nor to abandon the work
we've started, even if we cannot complete the
task ourselves".

And so, the situation, especially in Gaza, is
so awful, I feel I must continue to be a moral
voice, must continue to have the courage to take
a public stand against Israel's crimes against
humanity and the misinterpretations provided by
the media. Israel would not be able to carry out
its crimes against humanity without the United
States, the world, permitting it to do so and the
mass media, which, with few exceptions, dehumanizes
Palestinians and instills fear, ignorance and loathing
of them and their culture.

Having met Palestinians, experienced their hospitality,
warmth, dignity and even humor, it is incumbent upon
me to bring their voices, their experiences to
anyone who will listen to me, to bear witness
about the Wall, the land confiscations, the
demolished homes, the violation of water rights,
the restrictions of freedom of movement. The
future of peace cannot be awaited passively, but
rather from commitments and struggles for justice.
There is no peace without justice.

Nadav Tamir, the Israeli Consul General in Boston,
wrote in the Boston Globe newspaper in November
2007 "This is no longer an issue of being
pro-Palestinian or pro-Israeli, but rather a confrontation
between those who prefer peace and those who prefer
bloodshed. It is time to choose sides".

Silvia Cattori: You said that you plan to be
aboard ship to Gaza in a few months [2] ?

Hedy Epstein : Oh yes, definitely. There is
nothing which can stop me. I am determined to go
and I am going to take swimming lessons, just in
case. The "Free Gaza" boat could not go last
summer for different reasons. I think it is important
for all of the people who are invited on the boat,
to take that chance to show to the world what
Israel is really doing in Gaza and to express
their intention to break the illegal siege.

The Media is so controlled - probably by
Israel as well – that, whatever the power that
be in United State or in Europe, they never
convey what is really happening every day on the
ground; how much suffering is caused by the
extreme oppression, what is happening to the
people, not only in Gaza, but to a lesser extent
maybe to the people in the West Bank. The
world needs to know, and if we can be that
medium, to let the world finally know what is
happening, then it is important for us to play
that role.

Silvia Cattori: While most countries are isolating
the Hamas authorities in the Gaza strip, and
cutting them off from the most essential
humanitarian aid, the Hamas takeover in Gaza
does it not represent an obstacle for you to go there?

Hedy Epstein : No. Hamas was elected in a
democratic way, there were neutral observers
there and they did not find anything wrong with these
elections. They have been democratically elected.
As you know, Israel and the United States wanted this
election but they where hoping for a different outcome.
They did not like the fact that Hamas won the election.
For that reason, they are attacking Hamas and do not
want to recognize it and they are carrying out a sort
of collective punishment against the 1.5 million people
in Gaza. There is a huge humanitarian crisis.

The Israeli army controls all the exit points from
Gaza to Israel, to Jordan, to Egypt. In fact they
control the air, the sea and the land.

Almost nothing is allowed to come in, and nothing
is allowed to go out. Gaza is essentially an agricultural
community. Farmers in Gaza,
who grow flowers, strawberries and tomatoes
for instance, spend a lot of time and energy
and money to grow these products and cannot
sell them! And so the flowers wilt and the
strawberries and tomatoes spoil.

The Israeli government pretends that it no
longer occupies Gaza. But that is not true.

Silvia Cattori: For those people who do not
know, or do not want to know, what the
Israeli government is really doing,
your voice is of utmost importance. Indeed, a person
like you, who can give testimony about the Nazi
oppression and about the present Zionist
oppression, able to look at the facts with a
very honest spirit, is very rare!

Hedy Epstein: I do not make comparisons between
Nazi oppression and Zionist oppression; though,
I have been accused of doing that. Instead I speak
of the lessons learned from the Holocaust. I credit
my experiences as a Holocaust survivor as the
leading influence behind my efforts to promote
human rights and social justice. For me "remembering
is not enough", which is the title of my autobiography,
published in German, in Germany in 1999,
under the title "Erinnern ist nicht genug" [3].
Remembering also has to have a present and
a future perspective.

What is the lesson to be learned from the
Holocaust? I know what it is to be oppressed.
Nobody can do everything, but I feel that it is
incombent upon me to do as much as I can,
to do the right thing, to, in this case, stand
with the Palestinians in their struggle against
Israeli oppression, under which they exist and
suffer every day and night.

Why did I survive? To just sit here and say: yes,
the situation is bad, somebody shsould do
something about it. I firmly believe that each
and every one of us, including me, has to be
that someone, who tries to improve the situation.

And this is not to say that the sufferings of
the Palestinians are more or less important
than the sufferings of the people in some
other places. But I have only so much
energy and so much time each day.
Rather than dispersing my energy here
and there, I decided just to concentrate
it on the Israeli and Palestinian issue.

Silvia Cattori: On your way to Palestine,
you went first to France to visit one of the
concentration camps to wich your parents
were deported? Was it your first visit?

Hedy Epstein: Let my clarify. In 1940, on
22 October, all the Jews from the area of
South West Germany, where I come from,
were deported to the concentration camp,
Camp de Gurs, located in the foothills of the
Pyrenaen Mountains, in what was then Vichy
France, which collaborated with the Germans.
Men and women were separated by barbed
wire. In late March 1941, my father was
transferred to Camp les Milles, near Marseille.
In July 1942, my mother was transferred to
Camp de Rivesaltes, near Perpignan.

In September 1980, I visited Camp de Gurs, the
Dachau concentration camp (my father was
there for four weeks after Crystal Night or the
Night of the Broken Glass in 1938) and Auschwitz.
In 1990, I visited Camp les Milles, where my father
was until his deportation to Auschwitz via Drancy
(a transit camp near Paris).

Until August 2007, I was not able to visit Camp
de Rivesaltes, where my mother was, for about
two months in 1942, until her deportation, via
Drancy, to Auschwitz. And, last summer, with
friends, I went to visit Camp de Rivesaltes for
the first time.

In a letter, dated August 9, 1942, my father told me:
"Tomorrow I am being deported to an unknown
destination. It may be a long time before you
hear from me again..." In a letter, dated
September 1, 1942, my mother told me
exactly the same. And, then, I received
another postcard from my mother, dated
September 4, 1942, in which she writes:
"I am travelling to the East and sending you a
final goodbye..." These were the last communications
from my parents.

When, in 1956, I learned that my parents were sent
to the Auschwitz concentration camp, in Poland,
I could only assume that, after they had spent
almost two years in the concentration camps in
France, they were physically in a very bad
condition, and that they were probably sent
straight to the gas chamber upon their
arrival there.

Silvia Cattori: What was your feeling?

Hedy Epstein: I was amazed at the immense
size of the camp, which could house 30,000
people, and its deplorable condition. Some
of the barracks no longer exist; others are
falling apart, roofs missing, walls falling
down, and wild vegetation everywhere.
Desolation everywhere. Wind turbines
nearby stood like sentinels, watching
over the demise of what was once
home to a hapless people, to my mother.

From correspondence with my mother at the time
she was there, I knew in wich two barracks she
was housed. One barrack I never found; it
probably does not exist anymore. The other
one, barrack number 21, I found it.

The entrance to the barracks is elevated,
making entry difficult. But, as though to
invite me to enter barrack Nr, 21, a wooden
board was leaning up to the entry. With the
help of my friends I was able to maintain my
balance as I tip-toed, like a ballet dancer, into
the barrack. I touched the walls, maybe where
my mother might have touched it, I picked up
some of the debris to take home with me, tried
to imagine what it must have been like for my
mother. Later, I left the barrack at the opposite
end, jumping out and into an overgrown area,
stopped by thorny growth, holding me in place.
One of my friends poignantly remarked "The building
doesn't want you to go away".

Silvia Cattori: Was the visit of Camp de Rivesaltes
beneficial to you, since it made you closer to
the soul of your beloved mother?

Hedy Epstein: I felt very close to my mother
when I was there; I imagined how she moved
around in the camp, what it was like for her.
She was there from July to September 1942,
a time when it is very hot. I remembered that
my mother suffered from the summer heat when
we were still living together in Kippenheim. It was
very hot when I visited this camp. As so often in
my life, I was reminded of the "unearned privileged" life
I lead. Thanks to my parents' great unselfish love, I
escaped what they had to endure. By sending me to
England on a Kindertransport in May 1939, my
parents literally gave me life a second time.

Silvia Cattori: It was a very moving visit for you,
wasn't it? A come back to a very sad period of
your life, away from your parents!

Hedy Epstein: Before I left Germany on a Kindertransport
to England, my parents gave me many
admonitions, to be good, to be honest,
always ending with "We will see each other again soon".
I believed that we would see each other again soon,
whether my parents believed that, I will never know.
My parents and I corresponded directly with each
other until England declared war on Germany on
September 3, 1939. Then it was no longer possible
to correspond directly with each other. Instead we
exchanged 25 word messages through the Red Cross.

After my parents were sent to the camps in Vichy
France, we could correspond directly with each
other again. However, my parents were allowed
only to write one page, per person, per week. I
could write as much and as often as I wanted to.
My parents never wrote about the horrible conditions
under which they were forced to "exist," I learned
about that only after the war was over.

Thinking back on that time in England, I was a very sad little
girl, not allowing myself to really get in touch with
my feelings and fears. As I told you, each of my
parents in their last letters to me before their
final deportation (to Auschwitz), each of them
wrote: "It will probably be a long time before
you hear from me again".

How long is a long time? A week, a month, a year,
ten years! Since I wanted so very much to be
reunited with my parents again, I kept on telling
myself: "A long time is not over yet, I have to
wait some more". I was in denial. I was not able
to accept the inevitable, my parents' demise.
That was really a psychological game I played
with myself, it was a way for me to survive,
a self-preservation mechanism.

It was not until September 1980, when I visited
Auschwitz and stood on the place, called "Die
Rampe" (The ramp), where the cattle cars arrived in
the 1940s, the people were forced to get out and Dr.
Mengele and his cohorts made a selection as to who
will live and who will die (in the gas chambers), that I
was able to accept the fact that my parents and
other family members did not survive. That is a
very long time to be in denial. Perhaps the denial
was in lieu of the usual mourning process.

Silvia Cattori: Thanks for this moving interview.

(*www.kindertransport.org/history.html)

Notes:
[1] About Hedy Epstein's abuse by
Israeli security officers:
www.jkcook.net/Articles2/0165.htm;
www.palestinechronicle.com/story-06140794938.htm
[2] www.counterpunch.org/cattori06072007.html
www.voltairenet.org/article150755.html
[3] www.unrast-verlag.de/unrast,2,18,5.html